A Truly Magical Update

This needs some SERIOUS thought. There are some major pro's and con's to this - the change itself is AS BIG as soft ac, although the difference here is that this change is NOT stupid.

We will need to consider potion weights, pets, summons, casting, hotkeys etc.

For example: If a summons is carrying a ghaste pot, you can not collect it, and you can not feed it another - this means you'll only be able to cast normal "haste" on him.

Also: g-haste construction will become more important, we'll want to turn our regular haste's we collect into ghaste. At the moment it's quite expensive, and awkward to get to. Perhaps this is a task we can give to all of the alchemists who are easily accessible?

Essence, Wafers, Ghastes are all incredibly heavy - which hasn't been an issue up until now because we can stack them.

Perhaps we'll want a new, heavier, uber g-haste?

Thoughts/suggestions?

Sure, fine, with the good comes the bad.

Just reduce the weight of braves... If I have to start carrying them around cut their weight in half.

Increase HW to 5minutes is completely fair in lieu of no longer being able to stack, also increase the MP required slightly. (Not to much please. 9mp for 5min is to little, something like 25mp is fair.) Also, this change will bring back wisdoms as people will be more inclined to use one if they dont have to sit around and restack HW afterwards. And I must say, I wont fear the Cancel wizards on 51+ anymore.

Will haste magic still stack on pets? (For some reason I dont think it does anymore since Epi5, it feels bugged)

Also, please make the same magic reduction apply to pets in PvP. (Thus eliminating the mass rabbit pk'ers.)

Got Blog?

Fracas... You are full of surprises!

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I like it but yes I would be in favor of reducing the weight of Braves, wafers essences, wiz pots and so on.
Would only make sense.

if this happens i quit. plain and simple. im not gonna spend all my time watching for my "enhancers" to run out and having to recast in the middle of a battle that is just plain stupid to me.. i dont know how everyone else feels but i know that i dont want it like that. i can deal with having to restack holywalk after reset or braves or wafers or what ever.. that doesnt bother me at all. but taking away being able to stack my holywalk and my wafers so that i dont have to worry about them thats crazy the weights are insane on that stuff, even reducing the weights wouldnt help u would have to carry so much on ur char to ensure that u have enough to make it threw ur hunt. its crazyness!!!!! so i this happens i quit!

MuddyWater
www.muddymudpuddle.blogspot.com

=/

Wow ... I just felt my heart sink reading that.

My initial reaction is I'm too depressed and/or shellshocked to even put into words my reservations about this update so for now I'll just say don't do anything to hasty and I'll try to get my head wrapped around this and then give you a better report about how I feel about it.

I like this update. However, I too, would suggest that mp cost on HW be raised to offset the increased time and perhaps add an mgem requirement to it (as in just 1). As far as mages not liking to watch their timers for fastness...join the crowd, everyone else has to worry about it, now you would too :)
I could see a slight decrease in weight for the pots/wafers, but I can also see not having it either.

Would Ith still stack? o.O

Got Blog?

How about the royal auras stacking also??? Dont forget about us royals hehe.

Also, I had mentioned to Capt (and he liked the idea) before he resigned about an item that would truly "REFLECT" magic attacks to mages. Maybe a shield or even some new armour that would do so. It doesnt have to be full damage but this too would be useful vs simu-nuke attacks and would give mages 2nd thoughts on doing so continusly(sp?).

im good wit these changes..

it is kinda dumb how a mage can nuke anyone outa existance (good for sieges to.. now 5 dest falling on u wont instant kill u o.o,, or burn de.. it will affect final burn right?)

and DO NOT add mgem cosst to holy... i could care less about mp req tho

-:- My Blog -:-

Love it!

Fracas these new changes to the system are needed and I'm happy that you've chosen to add them. With the recent drop event the endgame spell "Destroy" has become to wide spread and A LOT of mages have this spell..with the reduction in potential damage addition it will help balance out those people who just bring 3-4 destroy mages to a fight and nuke one target at once.

As for the new stacking system of enhancers, love it too..I mean it'll take time to get use to but I'm willing to sacrifice the ability to stack these if it means a better magic pvp system. I also like the idea that was posted about there being a way to create greater pots...like g-braves/g-wafers and the increase time to HW...personally I'd say fudge it and make it 32secs like KR server but that would make a lot of people angry, so 5 minutes per cast is a nice substitution.

As for the suggestion to make HW cost a mgem...no way, unless you want to add sgem/dark stone cost for wind walk and moving accel respectively.

LOOK FORWARD TO THESE NEW CHANGES! V.V

PS. increase booty spawn on LoA please...I'm finding it super hard to find any with the server population being 3x that of ken/dep/test.

I have to say, I think this update is a long time coming (and I am a mage). Sure, I like being the badass on the block... but I'd rather see pvp become fun and drawn-out again rather than just being a series of insta-deaths followed by an hour of ****-talking on global.

That having been said... be veeeeery careful. This changes the basic feel of the game itself. It would be extremely easy to throw out the baby with the bath water on this one.

Cheers

Boo no to changing holy walk.

I am glad I am not a programmer, because if I were and had to explain why those two changes MUST be tied together, I doubt I would be able to. Normal logic (not programming logic) would tell me that these two changes should have nothing to do with each other. Fracas, please confirm that I understood correctly, the magic attack damage affects changes and the haste, etc., stacking effects changes MUST go together? We get either both or neither?

SwiftWind

That's correct, both or neither.

I agree with the changes.
Holy Walk should be more MP and 5mins at lest.(Never should Magic Gem be added)
All buff type pots need to be reduced in weight.
Moving acceleration needs to be increased and not the MP cost. (DE's all ready cast 2 spells every 3 min and 1 spell every 5 min then shadow armor every 15 mins. Sorry to cast that spell every 10 mins would Really kill my MP per hunt. I all ready hunt with full buffs Blue and SC on. I can hunt about 45 mins -1 hour before I have to stop and Regen. This is about 5 mins of sitting just waiting for my MP to go back up.
This might go for Elfs and Wind Walk but they do not have to cast spells as often but even 10 xtra mp per 6 cast per hunt does start to add up.

With this update can you Increase Earth skin Iskin Fire and the other spells back up in time? Just be nice to have longer spells.... ok I shut up

All in all you have anju's support behind this update with the changes listed above.

BTW Fracas Can you add an Blue T-Shirt? (increases MP regen by 1-2 ^^ I like this idea o.o you should too! Can be just a drop or event a repeatable quest. (unless its +8 I lose ac o.o haha)

www.lineagedb.com

I dunno, I do not want to walk around with 300CClears and 300COJs + 35Braves and 8GHaste as it sets now I can run 300CClears+300COJs+6Ghaste and my scrolls at stay at 80% after ramming 35Braves down the hatch I like it that way, because then the other way your talking I would be over my 82% by a mile, the non stacking of the braves will be more murder on Knights, OR change the belts around to add more to carry to = it out.

**edit** OR Reduce the weight of Braves, Wafers ect. After playing like this for years then POW NO MORE FOR YOU! is a little drastic.

These types of dramatic changes are exactly why I left WoW. Sigh, I just cancelled my Lin acct and I guess I go back to WoW or find something else.

As you can see it brings up a lot of issues. stacking of braves/hastes is as natural as it gets in lineage, its just part of the continuum. (sp?) i honestly think having the players debate changes would be more rewarding as an idea gathering, and conferance, sure its gona take time to work out the details but then people will feel involved. one of the things that has happened in the past is these changec come and people get upset, quit ect. this should be fun. not stressful.
as i look at all or nothing i would chose nothing. the brave/haste thing gives me hives. to the best of my knowledge there is no magical law of reduced effectiveness of damage with conseq castings of damage spells. in all the books i have read once a mage gets uber a conclave can be a stupid thing to piss off. people have worked hard to get their sp up their mp items enchanted. i just have this feeling that its not going to be a good change. i think something like this changes the whole game and test server isnt up to this type of testing.

in a server where money comes easy changes are easier to take and adjust to. so youll get less complaints. mages need the stack of hw to keep up with whom they hunt with. there are too few hotkeys open at once to cast effectivly. and playing lin now already has some sembelance to a piano. this just makes things more complicated.

we do not suffer broken hearts with the loss of hw/braves that are stacked. they are a pain in the arse is all and frustrating.

if you want to do something good remove the loss of those at server restart, end of line.

if u feel like your going to remove the stackability of things then remove the weight cap.

keep the stack ability. if u want to balance the damage issue stop dropping destroy in events !! sure we all like our toys but i see a pattern of attempted balance by dropping items which does no such thing. just switches the balance from place to place w/o accomplishment. things in lineage need to be rewriten not added to. mages got enough hotkeys/items to keep on their minds leave it be.

i have a gut feeling thgis would be bad. very bad.

generally those who come up with an idea cant see it clearly enough to judge it properly.

i have reread the post again and your not really adding anything. your taking away a number of things to attempt a balance. almost a "By-default" way of approaching it.

there is no reason to reduce the damage with conseq attacks. if u have a seige between 2 bp's and a group of non affiliated mages want to attack someone in one of the bp's i see no reason why the non-affils should be punished with reduced damage cuz they dint push their button fast enough. same goes with multiple bp seiging multiple bp's. the tactics wont be possible to work out and this idea will be just another nc blunder.

hmm did i wake up on right sid eof bed?

this needs a whole mess a lot of talking to fix this potential change.

if u truly want test server to be a true test then u need to make the drop rates ect all the same across the board across all servers.

i say down with test. make a small server for liek 20-30 people whom are veterans to play with any new changes like this.

Moli

I like Rooella's idea where u get an alchemist (since I luv Knights) to make uber-haste/brave/waffers/essences or w/e where u take 10 brave or so to make an uber one that goes for an hour or w/e with the weight of about 5 of the regular potions.. It only seems right because c'mon it goes for what 5min each? when I go hunting i hunt for at least 2 hours with 500 Condensed OJs think of carrying all those braves....It would bring it down to the point where I crack since I don't play DE because of all the buffs and forgetting which one to do...

uh, to me this sort of thing is totally necessary.

holywalk stacked for untold time has always been unfair.. I have had to carry my braves 20+ at a hunt for
7 years.

5 mages able to take my 1000 hp away in a split second has been totally unfair since destroy came out.

ive always carried N haste 20+ per hunt, as getting canceled takes both away, no need carry 5 g haste and 20 brave.. a small fight arises and your going home to get n haste anyway.

some people always say "I quit if you do such and such"
you never quit over a nerf, you never have and you never will..

Fracas, personally this is one of the first things you have done that I fully agree on..
perhaps thats not good.

-Tonk

Well I'm surprised that no one has brought this up, but this change makes a Lone mage a fricken sitting duck as far as pvp goes, we might as well all title ourselves Ducky and yell Quack every 2 mins. With our curse spells totally nerfed to hell so that they fail more then they work, and only being able to toss one damage spell every 1.5 secs in order not to waste our oh so precious mana it'll take us fricken 5 years to even slightly make a Pk'er think about using a damn pot.

If you impliment this change Fracas I want my damn Curse spells back in all their working glory(yes that's right Cancel too) so at least I have a chance(if I'm clever) of fending off the random PK attack that even on Ken occurs on FVB or FI. There needs to be some serious thought with this update before you make all us mages Toothless Old Sissys(like Kirby!....oooo feel the burn!)!

Oh and does the law of diminishing returns apply to triple arrow too? What about DE crits? Cause if we're gonna nerf, lets go all the way on this one... bring out the nerf stick!!

Cainna

:Comic book guy Voice from simpsons: Worst Idea EVeh! let me pick apart your "great" idea sir...
MOST hunting areas drop an ass load of pots, ... haste ghaste wis.. if i cannot stack them does this mean you are going to make everything weight ONE? or extend the length of my Wafer, braves etc .. so now i have to either hunt for shorter times or drop all my stuff on the ground .. come on lets be serious here.
This doesnt balance anything .. this just removes war strategies if i recall that is what you do to win a war?? strategy? this is really garbage and if this "masterful idea" goes live you will see a significant decrease in user subscriptions oh but bots dont care about pvp stuff so you will still have them around to give you a paycheck .. ok thats ok then sorry

I've slept on this, and I thought I was ready to comment; but as it turns out I need more information before I know exactly how upset to be.

Specifically, I need to know exactly how much the damage is reduced. The example only says reduced for the second cast, 2X reduced for the second cast, etc.

Is it cutting in half each time? Or is it reducing the damage by 1 then 2 then 4 then 8 ... ?

This is a bunch of bull.. this not stacking. MP is free to a mage so stacking HW is free just a little time consuming. Braves are dropped so thats pretty much free too, and wafers can be crafted with alot of time spent pounding ents. So what your going to cause is pots and stuff laying all over the ground because noone will be able to carry anymore because of weight. Im an elf so NT doesnt work if your over weight and wafers are heavy ....so im totally against this stupid change, why must you always think of stupid things to change and ruin a good game....change just the PvP servers if thats what you want not the others

The way I read it as each attack does less damage by halfs not by just 1 2 4 8 etc.

Hey, Prominence it is hard to "NERF" what has been hosed since Day 1 anyway ^^

Cainna, Moli, u guys had a much better way of putting it than i did. i agree 100000000% with both of u. this changes is bad very very very bad.. i dont want this to happen. we have enough to worry about. and prominence u dont play ken we have ppl that target mages in fvb or FI or even DI anywhere theres a combat zone. i also think that this would be great for the bots knowing that they cant get killed as easy. i have a feeling that the ppl that are agreeing to this arent lookin at everything. i mean look at the big picture here ppl. i play LOA also. i know what its like being a mage on a PVP server i play dep to occasionaly. i think this is insane many mages are wis/int. which means that they have lower hp like less then 300 at lvl 48. my chars have given up mp items to increase some hit points. i think this would wreck the game not only for us veterans but for new players as well.

MuddyWater
www.muddymudpuddle.blogspot.com

I really did cancel my account. I also realize that no one really cares that I did...thats not the point. This game is older than sin and the core features of it should have been established long ago and left well enough alone. Yes, games change but the changes should be positive..that is, things such as content and such should give the players new options, not take them away.

These proposed changes seem to me to be coming whether we like it or not and as a consumer I will respond in kind. I am not a gaming addict whatsoever. I play Lineage (or whatever) in my free time to relax and if I find myself frustrated over a stupid game, i look elsewhere for my entertainment. Canceling a subscription is the best way to let a company know you arent happy with their product. Do they really care or lose sleep because I quit. Nope, probably not, but at least I have the peace of mind knowing I am not just a member of a herd mindlessly feeding on what is offered us.

To Roo:

I feel as if thier needs to be some kinda indicator (like a red astrict) on these threads that show which is the recent post that happened.. cause it does get tiring searching for what ever the new post is since ppl can make a post in the middle of the thread.. and you wouldnt know it was thier untill u search thru the whole thread... know what i mean?

..:: My Blog ::..

I can tell already this thread is going to get crazy and end up being really hard to follow. It is, after all, the single biggest nerf to mages in PvP ever. As such, it will surely solicit a lot of responses.

So ... I am going to just post at the bottom to make it easier to find.

I don't know that each spell will half. The way I read it the second spell is reduced by some unknown ammount then each one after that is reduced by double the previous ammount.

I don't know who these uber mages are that can take on a dark elf with a Bapho Staff, but I would not want to meet them in a dark corner. I have to imagine you would need the spell to crit several times in a row (which is not unheard of) to have a chance of winning that fight. If you end up with 15 straight non crits, a dark elf (or any other class) will keep with reds. If you crit just once or twice they are only a few ancient clears away from being full again. Besides that, mages are spell users ... they should not need to rely on whacking stuff to win a fight.

I tend to agree with Cainna that if you are going to make it so mages cannot "nuke" an opponent, you need to give them back their curse spells. As it stands you are taking away the overwhelming force option after the debuff option has already been taken away. If I can't erupt, erupt, erupt, destroy ... I should at least have the option of canceling or using weakness or paralyze or any of these other spells that as of now only work with an erase elf and only when you can hit your spell before anyone else hits the target and cancels the erase. In the meantime you are burning mana and magic gems so by the time the spells work, there is no mana left with which to fight.

Lastly, there are SOOOOO many things unbalanced about this game, I'm not sure why we are starting here. Tripple Arrow is insanely strong. A level 55+ elf with a kaiser xbow and Tripple Arrow is rediculously strong. chance used to end level 55 con mages in three to four tripple shots. If you are going to reduce the effectiveness of rapid fire spells, it MUST also apply to tripple shot. So a group of mages can take out a single target fairly easily. A single earth elf can immobilize an entire group of people and kill them one at a time.

I think when you click on the new comments thing on the main page it takes you to the highest new topic. The new topics also say "New" above them in red. From there you have to scroll down and discover all of the new posts =]

Whoa.. Flat -Expanded is reallllllllly confusing lol.. dont know who people are replying to

People! Use quotes XD

..:: My Blog ::..

still . . . =/

Wow i really hate this idea and a lot of people will agree with me...not every damage spell should be affected by this. olny the min one that has been flooded onto the servers during the last event. A lot of mages i know that are high level are thinking of quitting because of this stupid thought if it ever goes live

It wouldn't be the first time people actually got upset enough about a major nerf to quit. Back when they first tried to put in the half experience on white named mops upate, so many people cancelled their accounts that it was rolled back within a matter of days.

This sounds like a very needed update now that it seems like every lvl 50+ mage on LOA server has destroy. The fights ends when 2 or 3 destroy mages shows up. Got my vote to implement this.

PS:
Every classes gets a somewhat of a nerf from this update besides the dark elf class. Mages spells dont stack to do full damage (good!), knights, elves, and royals have to carry their braves/wafers/essences, but DEs have no negative effects in this. Remove uncanny! J/K hehe.

Moving accel wouldn't stack for them either.

True, but that isn't nearly as big a nerf as every other class is taking. It's an annoyance, but at least they don't have to carry something with real weight in order to keep using it.

To: HarrisPilton

Just wanna let you know that you'll be missed. I remember the first time I saw your name when I was in resistance village. Me, Armyboy and Bennybori had a good long laugh thinking that your char name totally rock.

Anyway, as regard to the subject of Fracas's post, the change is certainly dramatic but i believe its good overall. I know for a fact that this system was implemented very very long ago and has worked well in Korea and there are subsequent updates/changes that was made in order to offset the duration issues of braves/magics.

The current pvp/siege focuses too much on how many destroy mage a pledge has. The imbalance has gone for so long... that most forgot how pvp/siege used to be..

The stacking issues are a concern but i'm sure it can be fixed. If a spell can't be stacked than it should be easily corrected by changing mana cost and duration of spell. I think the biggest concerns are MA, Braves, Holywalk and I2H. There needs to be some twicks to get these spells/pot to perform reasonably.

Soomyung
Dark Elf
Ken Rauhel
http://soomy.blogspot.com