This is just a post to have people stop comparing Kaiser Weapons to super weapons like DKSword/KV sword for knights, DS for Prince/ss and unfortunately for elves ..... ur super weapons are coming in ep6 (+5dex 20base damage weapons, rly?).
DE gets Kaiser to off balance the fact DE has no shield, it WAS meant to be a defining factor for 50+ DE over non 50 DE, NCA has devalued this. Do not call it the reward because it is not, it costs alot to make (100m for a HoD alone on Ken) and is not linked to the quest to which FoD is given.
Mage gets the best deal from 50, 100mp +1INT with Elves getting a decent sword if it overzels (not a problem in ep6). DBlade for Knight is actually very strong, as good as a DKsword since it crits ALOT, don't believe me get MaxRnzII (Ken) to hit you with his. Pity most knight lost theirs since there was no safe way to overzel it before. I understand that DKSword/KV is expensive but take into consideration NCK intended K-Wep to be used as a bench mark against knight, who all use TSU. DKsword 350m, +9 K-Weapon = 900-1bil on Ken/Dep, yes ur base weapon cost is high, but Knight is never meant to be a DE damage.
But anyway, back to my orginal point, Kaiser is in no way end game to DE, our true end game stuff doesn't exist on any server, kor/tw/usa with the except of maybe 2-3 Barnaka all up.
DE end game = Demon/Devils watever u wana call it, Barnaka Claws, Rhonde Edo.
Knight and Elf get new weapons in ep6, knowing the massive idiocy of NCA they will probably end up giving them to you again via a drop event. With the new item you will destroy DE in PVP and PvE damage.
When I say this, I am excluding the godly weapons with stupid stats like 40/50 sword etc.
I expect as always, NCA will look at the base item stat and just throw Kaiser in again, since they don't understand the fundamentals of CRIT rate for DE. So please stop saying DE is fine, DE cant even make their end game weapons, while every other class run around with DKS/KVsword/Sayha/Bapho Staff & our K-xbow
I want a Sayha's bow or
I want a Sayha's bow or K-xbow like everyone else....I must have missed the boat again ^_~.
Honestly, the only info I have (which may be wrong) is that the "sick" knight and elf weapons for EP6 drop from the level 99 boss that will take a miracle for us to even kill. If Knights have end-game weapons (DK/KV Swords), then DE should at least be able to get one or two of theirs (I have seen Rhonde Edo for sale in GTV before if it makes you feel better).
Just curious, what are the elf's end-game weapons?
Theres a lineage wiki site
Theres a lineage wiki site that has roughly translated stuff about the weapons, just google it since I read the tw sites. Even if a boss (I'm assuming ur talking about the half body in the ground guy) does drop it, with the weakened USA bosses + easy mode classes we'll be able to take it down.
This thread was made more because I was getting irritated at the vast majority of posters on the official boards who are apparently knights. Who beleive they are meant to do only slightly less then a DE.
DE was made originally as a knight killer, Knight was never meant to beat DE 1 on 1. In return DE got easily ruined by Elf and Mage. NCK has nerfed DE to a point now where there is no distinction between Knight and DE in terms of survival and damage. Knights have a HP buffer while DE had MR/Dodge. FYI DE has higher MR to compensate for lower overall HP, we're made to resist damage. Knights are made to soak it up hench why Knight can easily break 1k with AS.
Since so many people here like to babelfish chinese and korean sites you should be able to dig up the old dev questions from NCK and what role DE was meant to play. It's just the profound level of total ignorance and stupidity on the official boards that frustrates me, especially since I had a board account and Crickette says he can't find it -.-? Not to mention that we can't even make new accounts.
i can see the point hes
i can see the point hes trying to make kinda, i have only ever heard of one HOD dropping on ken server. it does make it hard for DE's to make thier kaiser weapons. i got my k-xbow from the island event. but i spent a few weeks (and lots of deaths) try to get a HOD that never dropped. and a DE cant exactly hunt those floors that the lesser dragons are on. the price on the item is way expensive. maybe NCA needs to think about a slight increase on that drop rate.
MuddyWater
www.muddymudpuddle.blogspot.com
Just a little note: The new
Just a little note: The new weapons that will come with EP 6 and EP U are harder to make than the current top weapons. For example the Wind Blade Dagger (none existent on ANY asian server!) - I'll only list those components that are 'easy' to get:
- 5000 Minerals of Darkness
- 500 rough silver
- 500 rough gold
- 500 rough platinum
- 500 rough black mith
- 10 Tears of Gran Kain
- Long Sword of Pretender King
Add 300 Crystal of Dark Elf Souls, 50 Black Magic Powder, 8 super rare scrolls and some other EP6 stuff.
Don't even think about to make one if your current adena balance is below 300mil. And even if you have plenty of adena, you prolly will never be able to buy all components - that's why none exsisting on any asian server yet.
That's pretty much the same
That's pretty much the same case with the high end DE weapons, except we don't get ours from drop events since Fracas and crew know nothing about DE.
We have a lvl 49 STR DE with
We have a lvl 49 STR DE with Kaiser Claw in our pledge and he rips even our lvl 54 knight into slices in no time. Nothing can compare to the damage a DE does when his crit comes in. Maybe a 25 base INT mage with destory but thats all.
DEs already do most damage - what else do you want?
Yes door way fights, I've
Yes door way fights, I've always been certain thats the best way to evaluate things. Ur knights may be using the wrong to kill the DE, get a retri and he'll be able to turn the tables esp with DK morph.
Anyway, DE is meant to beat Knight, until higher lvl (65+) where knight bonuses outclass DE, I was pointing out that as the damage class, Knight (on usa servers) using the correct weapons can get nearly the same damage/min as we do, which is fundamentally very much not what NCK intends.
DE's only advantage in the USA server is DoubleBreak, our advantage was meant to be K-Wep over knights who are all meant to be using TSU, but that doesn't work anymore since Knight has DKs/KVs common enough now that most 60+ have at least 1 of 2.
The only duel I can win
The only duel I can win consistently against a de is a complete no buff duel.
(Haste/brave/poly knight vs haste/poly de)
Damage output isnt what wins the fight... Uncanny dodge is what wins the fight.
However, I am not saying that to say they are over powered. Balance is fine as is in my opinion, I shouldnt be able to beat a well equipped DE as a well equipped knight, and I cant. However when we both get canceled less than 5seconds into a siege, and stand toe to toe, it is a different story.
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I don't disagree with that
I don't disagree with that since UD was meant to be our main advantage in not dying, with high damage being the reason we took so much damage in return, all in all blame LoA rules I suppose o.o
If I get cancelled in a fight depending on how much mp I have I need to venz lol, DE with no buffs is like being a lvl 30 knight x.x
I dunno... last time I
I dunno... last time I checked there were lots of +9k-edo/claw but not too many +9dksword/kv sword. This is the result of the event you're talking about. +9dksword is like 3-4billion adena... I dunno, I'd rather be a DE, I could buy a +9kedo and kclaw and still have a few billion left over
The costs are true here
The costs are true here though I was rather making a comparison that Kedo/Kclaw are tsu equivalents by NCK design. The balance of the items was made in that way, DKsword and KV are equivalent to Demon/Rhode and Barnaka, I just saying that comparatively due to drop events the highest end stuff for knight is readily available over the DE versions of end game weapons. In the ends it's all NCA's fault for making common what shouldn't be at all (DKs).
De's were never ment to out
De's were never ment to out class a knight. a knight is supposed to be the main tank. thats why they are a knight. they are supposed to have massive str dex and hp. while the de is supposed to play second to a knight. then elves and mages as healer. Everyone things that De's are supposed to be a tank they arent. in some cases des are way stronger than the knights and the only reason that is is because of the crystals that the des have, if u take all that away u have nothing but a high hp waste of time. Now im not gonna dis on de's i played one to lvl 45 and did all the quests to that point. i enjoyed playing it. but i found it boring after 45. mostly because i had top items except for kaiser claws or Edos. and i found it impossible to make them seeing as how the HOD never drops. so i went back to my elf and lvled it to 50. im currently playing with a low lvl knight again. i had one before and deleted it at lvl 47. why u might ask i got bored yet again. no money = no items plus i built the stats goofy and it was pretty sucky. even still the swords for knights dont drop like lindb says either. Now if u want that kaiser weapon for that de my best advice for u would be to make a water elf or take a mage to 41+ and kill those lesser dragons and see how long it takes for u to get that HoD. good luck with that. But im tellin u. that DES were NOT ment to out class a knight. Knights always got the short end of the stick in the drawing pool. now its thier turn yet again to be brought back to where they should be. THE MAIN TANK! i know that im gonna get slammed for this post and i dont care. because i wont be posting on this thread anymore. this is my opinion and u know what they say about those so have a great day!
MuddyWater
www.muddymudpuddle.blogspot.com
Another way to put
Another way to put this:
***The below is assuming no buffs other than speed buffs***
DE's were designed to dish out large amounts of damage, and not able to widthstand a lot of damage.
Knights were designed to take large amounts of damage, dish out a descent amount of damage, and outlast any melee based class.
Elves were designed to be a hybrid class being able to deal damage at a distance, melee, and/or be a support class with little to no downtime.
Mages were designed to be about 90-95% magic/spell based dealing damage at a distance very rarely having to go into melee mode and also being the main healing class.
Royals were designed to be lesser knights with the perk of being able to start a pledge.
DE was not designed to tank,
DE was not designed to tank, it might seem like we're great tanks currently, blame hard AC on USA servers. I've never once said that was the purpose of our class, that's for knights and knight alone.
My post is meant to address the fact that knight end game stuff (KVs and DKs) are common compared to DE end game such as Demon/Rhonde and Barnaka. Ours are incredibly rare they are virtually non existent, DKs was meant to be as well but NCA has made it common via drop events.
Kaiser is NOT the top end DE weapon.
By design DE in terms of damage ARE meant to outclass knight in melee, that's directly the intention stated by NCK Devs from very very old interviews when DE were released. That's all I need to say about that.
I see your point here. I
I see your point here. I don’t play DE, but I can see from what your saying, even if one were to save uber amounts of cash to buy/get a comparable DE weapon, there are none to buy. Knights do have a wide range of options in the weapon field right now. And if there are any or a lot of K-weapons for DE there just as much as the high end weapons for the knight, but just not in the same class. I think NC might want to rethink at least getting better weapons out there for DE, or getting the HOD drop rate up, so people have a better chance of making themselves an uber K weapon with out the super high cost. Good point, hope they do something for the DE class. As you say seems like the DE don't or wont have those end-game weapons anytime soon. Good luck
Sorry my v, I love DE. And
Sorry my v,
I love DE. And a knight is cool to but I cann't see a knight being BETTER or a first class to a DE. When I go areas with a higher level knight than my de I let the knight hit first because of his higher HP but you can see that boss mops put a hurting on knights. Without a healer the knight is a pot whore.
After I let the knight engage first I attack the boss and almost immediately draw aggro thus allowing my stealty de to avoid allot of damage and deal punishing blows to the boss. That is why a DE can sometimes outdrop a higher level knight. IMHO a DE is he new knight. But I see them as equals. Each has a different hp/mp setup and different way of playing them.
Playing a knight is very easy, no one should argue with this. What is a knight hotkey setup like..
POTS, ESC, BRAVES and different weapons usually a breakable high damage weap and a unbreakable weapon and those fixing stones. If it's a boss that polys you like tarak or cancels you like chaos maybe some poly scrolls.
A DE has pots and esc scrolls as well then a number of spells to get the de buffed up. The DE STR/DEX spells are nothing compare to a HOMP and HOMS which I would rather have on a DE that's like +2 more to str and dex. They are the same but different playing styles.
One of the things I would liek to see is bring stones dropping as much as braves. Should be more than braves because a DE still has to "refine" a bring into a useable stone.
I do agree on the HOD drop rate. It's horrible. It's tough for a DE to hunt lesser dragons. Maybe make HOD a rare drop from bosses would be a btter way of handling HOD drops. Add a Kaiser weapon for Knights also just not as strong as Kedo or Kclaw or make the DE be able to use the knight weapons then. The DE does not swing even close to the speed or a braved knight so that can be knida even.
This has been Papi's 1 & 1/2 cents cause I could have written more but I gotta get back to leveling.
Papi - AKA Betrayed Royal
Ken Rauhel
Join The Fight! Real Players vs. Bots!
Whisper or Mail Betrayed
Hunting Ground Domination and
Dragon Slay Xmas 2008
http://theken300.blogspot.com
You wouldnt be saying that
You wouldnt be saying that about the HOMP and HOMS if you had the mp and mp regen of a knight on your DE.
Also, brings shouldnt be as readily available as braves.
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Just a side question: Is
Just a side question: Is there any lvl 50+ DE thats uses Kaiser Bow as main weap? I mean its made for them, its a level 50 quest item but doesn't seem to be very usefull compared to K-Claw or K-Edo.
Kinda dumb in my eyes.
not that i know of.. its
not that i know of.. its mainly to make and sell for a high price to elves..
..:: My Blog ::..
I have heard this numerous
I have heard this numerous times that the Kbow is a level 50 quest item... I have never read about this quest anywhere. I want a kbow too! Pelase tell me where this quest is so I can do it. BTW a 50+ de with a abowgun does really well in tos with a healer. Keeps the horses at a distance so you don't get stunned.
Papi - AKA Betrayed Royal
Ken Rauhel
Join The Fight! Real Players vs. Bots!
Whisper or Mail Betrayed
Hunting Ground Domination and
Dragon Slay Xmas 2008
http://theken300.blogspot.com
Its the same quest as the
Its the same quest as the other Kaiser weapons Papi... You collect the HOD, and the ingredients, and you can choose to make any ONE of the three kaiser weapons. And you are done.
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And is not repeatable,
And is not repeatable, correct?
correct ..:: My Blog ::..
correct
..:: My Blog ::..
Quote:(+5dex 20base damage
i was told that base dmge means nothing for bows.. its only the +dmge that matters...
so is that weapon
20/20
or sumtin like
3/3 +20dmge ?
..:: My Blog ::..
If a bow is 20/20 but no
If a bow is 20/20 but no damage bonus, a +0 Yumi will out damage it due to the +3 damage.
at least it still has the +5
at least it still has the +5 dex going for it
..:: My Blog ::..
Wasn't talking about a bow,
Wasn't talking about a bow, was referring to a bunch of upgradeable weapons for fire elves.
For bows the one with a proc is probably the most viable since its +4 damage +2 hit with a magic proc with decent damage.
To original poster.. You
To original poster..
You argue that DE's endgame weapon is not Kaiser, because they have stronger weapons that are not attainable... Since those items are not attainable, thus you can not strive to get one, thus you can not get one even if you do reach 'end game'... Doesnt that technically turn them from 'end game items' to just flat out, not attainable items?
Since they arent end game, because you can not even get them, then Kaiser is in fact your end game weapon! =P (For now that is.)
Just like, DK sword was unattainable before the boss event... So before the boss event, DK sword wasnt end game knight either! =P
In my opinion, there is a difference between end game item, and dream item. End game is the best attainable item... Dream item is just that item you have heard of but no one actually has (here.)
Could I not technically argue that Doom Blade is end game knight weapon? =P
At least the Devils items *are* craftable...
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Me want a a doom blade.. its
Me want a a doom blade.. its like +5 to all stats and +127 enchant or sumtin rite o.O?
..:: My Blog ::..
We were on a small pledge
We were on a small pledge hunt in Lastavard... And Soomy swears up and down that he saw a Doom Blade appear on the ground next to him, and when he clicked it to pick it up it disappeared...
We think the monitor was playing games with us... He said it looked like a Katana on the ground, and said 'Doom Blade'...
He was just to slow to pick it up!
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It was probably Fracas ^_~.
It was probably Fracas ^_~.
It's better he didn't
It's better he didn't actually pick it up, since the last person who did got a perma ban back in the day for killing a GM (old dice dagger) and picking it up lol.
The thing is sk8 the DE weapons (demons) are attainable but not so much on USA servers due to low pops and the items being binded with the only real makers being bots or bot owners who can set their bots to hunt the tradeable bits.
Kaiser is thus not our end game weapons, with a Barnaka claw having being dropped once (reported drop), legolas or coronis mentioned a rhondes, then it's safe to assume it's simply meant to be of a legendary status like DKsword and KVs was meant to be. It simply meant that the weapon should be costing billions at +7 as it does on the Korean/TW servers, not for every 65+ knight to have.
I know I like attacking Fracas's competence but frankly I don't think he actually knows much about any class and just picks stuff by numbers.
Anyway had to make a new account since I forgot my password and can't access my home email at work^^
Those reported drops are on
Those reported drops are on other country servers... I do not know of any Baranka or Rhonde weapons on any US server. Can you confirm one?
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I saw one in GTV about two
I saw one in GTV about two weeks ago.
The value of a Rhonde edo is
The value of a Rhonde edo is higher than the 100mil mark that you can set it for in gtv.... I really think you saw something else. No one that could get one would be dumb enough to sell it for cheap w/o figuring out what it is first...
Are you sure you didnt see a Abyss edo, or Auger Blade edo, or similar?
I just dont believe there would be a rhonde edo in gtv.
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I could be wrong (will not
I could be wrong (will not be the first time), but I thought I saw Rhonde Edo in GTV. Oh well, what is supposed to drop it?
No one knows. Thats why its
No one knows. Thats why its a Rumor Weapon =/
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I've been told Barnaka has
I've been told Barnaka has dropped once on LoA.
As for the Rhondes as Legolas said =P
I think given time as with
I think given time as with nature of mmorph this whole end game item discussion will always be put to test. End game items naturally change. Before TOI update.. end game weapon for knight was tsu.. sounds very distant but tsu remains to be great weapon of choice. I'm certain at some point k series will be replaced with different end game item.
I wanted to make a comment cause people continue to believe that Devil's items are "knew end game item" for DE. I know for a fact that Devil's item is not exactly all that popular and is not considered to be an end game item... It is certainly not better than k series.
Kedo 17/13 +4 Hit +3 Dam
Dedo 15/10 +3 Hit +1 Dam Haste Effect
Kclaw 20/16 +2 Hit +5 Dam
Dclaw 20/18 +3 Dam Haste Effect HP Degeneration
Kxbow 4/3 +1 Hit +6 Dam
Dxbow 3/3 +2 Hit +4 Dam Haste Effect
You can see that with comparision, all the devil's item lack K series quality.
Recently, after about a year.. EP6 End game item was finally crafted by one person. Since much of itemization in EP6 is for Knights, the item that was created is..
Two handed 25/30 STR +2 +Hit +5 +Dam +20 Unbreakable
http://lineage.gameabout.com/news/view.ga?id=1&news_id=3364
He is soooo godly. Watch his Counter Barrier in action... I have a feeling at the height of EP6.. Most Knight players will start admitting ;0 they have it goooood...
Soomyung
Dark Elf
Ken Rauhel
http://soomy.blogspot.com
Bah, Counter Barrier tests
Bah, Counter Barrier tests where a knight casts it and 5 de's stand there and hit on him till they die proves nothing!
Of course they are going to die! What kind of DE (or anyone) would just sit there and hit them? If anything, all Counter Barrier does is turn you into a non-target till it expires... The only other usefulness I see is using it when attacking a gate/tower so that you can damage the gate/tower and anyone trying to hit you to get you off of it ends up damaging/killing themselves instead of you...
Soomy, can you get me the crafting requirements for that Sword please =P
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Quote:Two handed 25/30 STR
what happened to de being the damage dealer
..:: My Blog ::..
That weapon will likely not
That weapon will likely not exist anytime soon on our servers. Kinda like the new elf bow.
I want my elf end-game weapons!
You can at least get the new
You can at least get the new quest bow...not all that hard to get and its better then a yumi.
I use a bowgun ;). In all
I use a bowgun ;). In all likelyhood I will opt for the sword of flames instead of the bow.
Boa is referring to the new
Boa is referring to the new Moon Bow, which is a slightly better Sayha basically. (i believe) Coming in epi6.
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There is no need for DE
There is no need for DE anymore, excluding this sword (which can be upgraded btw), knight gets access to a bunch of stuff that makes them outclass DE damage wise without using their spells.
To all the whining moaning knights, gg, you made a class completely irrelevant. GL playing with much less players. DE can't tank as effectively due to lower HP and in ep6 we also get outdamaged (excluding this sword, since this sword doesn't merit discussion due to it's complete BS stats). Ah well least knights will be happy, you guys are gods just like the old days.
Exactly the kind of garbage
Exactly the kind of garbage that made so many DE run to the hills and quit. So much for DE being the damage dealer, this sword seems real fair.
Least this weapon was in fact craftable, with DE stuff still so rare and virtually non existent.
Soomyung, the reason people consider Demon/Devils series to be of a superior nature to K-Series overall is due to reported inherent crit rates in the weapons, with them reportedly critting +20-30% more, which is pretty uber, Barnaka is reported to crit 60-70% of the time as well. Whatever it lacks in base stats is rescinded through the increased crit.
To Sk8: counter barrier test isn't really relevant since that sword + CB is simply to devastating in the first place. The fact he ripped through everyone else w/o even coming close to losing proves that NCK is out of their minds and absolutely stupid. Even if he didn't so any tests...it's stats alone say as much. Hard or not, Devil's are as hard to make but are garbage compared to that.
That sword did nothing for
That sword did nothing for that test. The knight could have been using a +0 two handed sword from fv and win. CB did it all. And those CB tests prove nothing..... As it intentionally shows the worst that could happen.... It was easily preventable for all of those de's to stay alive and own that knight...
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Huh? On the fight headlines
Huh? On the fight headlines only the 5v1 is with Counter Barrier on, the other tests are him vs. ppl normally w/o any of the 55+ knight skill active (Since only the multiple says Counter Barrier, the rest say what the opponent has on like Double Break etc). The fact that he destroyed everyone 1v1 proves how stupid NC is and why this game isn't really worth paying for anymore. The nice thing about lineage was people could quit and have a +9 tsu be comparable to everyone else for example, it ep6 it turns into WoW, miss a few months and your stuffed.
Private servers are going to be more balanced then the live servers if they actually allow that sword to be made on US servers.
I was referring to just the
I was referring to just the 5v1 scenario. As people keep saying that CB is godly... When really its not... Its good dont get me wrong, but it wont happen in a fight the way the 'tests' of it show it to happen.... Because 5 de's arent going to kill themselves like that. They are going to move on and drop a different target and return to the knight when his CB has expired.
Yes, in 1v1, that one knight that managed to complete the 1 sword owns his de friends. Not a big deal in my opinion... Its one sword after months and months of crafting and I am sure it cost him well over a few billion. Also, is that a test server? (obviously, if it is, the 5x higher drop rate means that on a real server it is 5x harder than it was on that server... not to mention the much higher population of people to sell him the ingredients he needs because there are 200 people farming them instead of 20.)
It seems that you are trying to make it out to seem that in one year after epi6 every knight will be swinging this god sword.... And that de will be just a side class again. But it wont be that way...
I wouldnt be surprised if no one ever crafts this sword. I have farmed Lastavard for months and only have 500+ of the 5k minerals required... And those are probably the easiest item to collect from all the ingredients.
Also, about what seems to be a role reversal of DE vs knight coming....
Again, this doesnt surprise me... It happens to every class more than once throughout lineage...
DE was god class for a long while. They suffered numerous 'nerfs' but remained top end through it all. They were on top. It was there turn.
Elf was on top at one point also (and arguably could still be.) For a while they were on the very bottom. (before elf magic for instance)
Mage was on top for a long time to. They also suffered nerfs.
Knight, near the beginning, was top end. They watched themselves get passed up by every class. Then with the advent of LOA rules it got even worse. So Fracas fixed that some, from player input. However, over in Korea, they werent getting the loving that they are getting here. So now apparently Korea is seeing it fit to boost them for a change. They will once again be on top. But once again, that wont last forever as some other class will take that from them in turn. Its a rotation cycle.
I understand why as a DE you fear this. Because you are used to being on top. But it wont last forever. DE will get their turn again. And I do remind you, DE does get some loving in the future also.
My last point...
Your main concern for class balances and getting stomped by another melee shouldnt be knights and this new near impossible to obtain sword... Your real fear should be the class of super fire elves. That spirit crystal is arguably far easier to obtain than this god sword. I would love that spell on my knight...
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I have to agree with Sk8
I have to agree with Sk8 here, Dark Elves have been at the top of the food chain almost since they were first made available (I witnessed a level 49 DE beat a level 52 Knight in DK). Even with the nerfs DEs received they are still on par with knights. Mages are just another story all together and that is a completely different topic.
Elves were never on top...We were close, but not on top. What we are the best at is we are the most adaptable which gives us an advantage. Now we just need a morph that will use sword and bow.
From what I have read about the new fire spell, it did not seem feasable for normal hunting just for PvP and boss hunts due to it's short duration. Even without that spell fire elves are still pretty strong and can dish out a lot of damage, just not on par with a knight or dark elf. A fire elf and a water elf buddy could make for a great pairing ;).
I won't repeat this anymore
I won't repeat this anymore since obviously it's not sticking anyway. DE lower level will beat knight until they both get into their 70s where Knight bonuses > DE bonuses, so with a +10 tsu they can beat +10kedo/kclaw DE as has happened many times already on lineage tournaments.
Elves are one of the best tools for pvp when they have bind, bind elves at high level dominate since there is no natural resistance to their spells in pvp except for Level. Get caught and you die.
Because we are all 70+
Because we are all 70+ right?
=P
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The point of lineage is to
The point of lineage is to level. Most players in korea/tw see 70 as our version of 52, they aren't comparable so the game is in fact designed for the higher level irrespective of the tiny population of the US server views. The classes on a design level are balanced enough already irrespective of gear, blame people playing here if we can't tell the difference due to laziness to level.
I am not understanding what
I am not understanding what you are trying to say.
Basically you are saying that it doesnt matter that a 49 de can beat a 52 knight because in Korea everything is oriented towards 70+ people and they only care what a 70+ person can do against another 70+ person and because we are not 70+ our opinion matters not?
I am not sure that was your intended message, so please feel free to clear that up for me.
Also, I will note that a large portion of Episode 6 and EpiU is oriented towards low level players. So I am intrigued by this idea that you say Korea only cares and balances towards the higher end people... When the low end hunting areas are the ones that just got huge revamps.
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DE is already a side class,
DE is already a side class, u may state otherwise but as a non DE you probably don't understand why DE feel this way, I have talked to alot of fellow DE and they feel the same way to.
I'm not making it out as in 1 year every Knight will have such a weapon, fact is, 1 knight with such a weapon is already BS. Knight is not designed to outdamage DE, only the idiotic complaints of knights have brought this about and the repercussions are very much felt in the foreign servers.
As for balance it's irrelevant as this sword among all the new ones coming in ep6 are unreasonably strong compared to DE weapons, keep in mind we don't have braves so where do we make up the damage? We can't tank as well as knight since all the best tanking gear is knight stuff like taraks and DSM. Please don't equate giving DE DK back as loving, that's basic change since knight no longer has penalty to swing speed with 2hs either, so that is really a moot point. Nor are the changing of our morphs, no one cares since they do nothing new.
Concerning materials required to build such weapons, sure they may cost billions or w/e but make one and you'll dominate every other player on the server. 1 weapon making such a big impact? Theres a difference between useful and intelligently balanced compared to this garbage which is basically god mode on.
I don't concern myself with the fire elf spell since DE as a class was never meant to be able to beat Elves anyway, cancel it's over for us. As for PvE aspect of the spell it's reasonable enough compared to the crazy crap NCK adds for knights in ep6.
It's not a matter of fear of anything sk8, it's a matter of reasonableness, DE was strong because they were a new class, the so called nerfs were just balances that's why no one really took up the issue, the stuff in ep6 for knights aren't designed in such a aspect, they simply dominate with no apparent reason why.
*warning... its long... to
*warning... its long... to long... I hate reading long posts like this... so I am sorry to anyone that has to suffer through reading my long post... I apologize in advance... What the hell are you doing Sk8? This isnt an essay class!*
I am curious which idiotic complaints you are referring to...
Surely you are not referring to any complaint (or request) made by any member of this board or Lineage.com. As I can not see that any of said complaints would have even been heard by the development team at NC Korea..
If you are referring to complaining by knights in Korea, then there must be some warranted reason for their complaints... For that many to complain, and for NCK to decide to change something due to the complaints. You make it out as though a couple of people voiced their view and the whole world changed around that view.
Like I said, DE were on top for a long while. There is nothing wrong with giving that title to someone else for a change.
BTW, two handed weapons still will maintain slower swing speeds over their one handed counter parts. That is not changing. The slower swing speeds are not being removed... And actually, my favorite knight weapon (Retribution) is actually getting a swing speed decrease added to it. It will be but a shell of its former self....
For some reason I feel like comparing this to mage spells of old... During the younger days of Lineage when mages could dominate from a distance through the use of simple spells such as Erupt, and Freeze. Then came the first mage with Destroy... Everyone felt the same way about Destroy as you do about this god sword. It is just too much. That one guy with Destroy can own anyone. That one guy with this sword can own anyone. (btw, a god weapon is not enough to kill any opponent... good luck to this knight to kill a mage that runs around in circles and never lets a hit land on him, or an elf doing the same... a one cell god weapon is only a god weapon with in one cell...)
Well eventually that Destroy ended up in the hands of many people. The godness of the spell wore off as defenses arose against it. MR became more and more important. Changes were made towards balance of the spell, altered delays and damage output capability. And on and on.
That one guy with that one Destroy was no longer seen as the God he once was...
What does the future hold for this god sword? Will everyone get one? Doubtful. Will it fall in to the hands of a knight? Not easily, not easy at all. And probably not for years to come. Except for possibly on our test server. I feel it is best to leave the implications of this sword until seen in action. Until a problem arises around it. Until it erupts on our servers as the problem you see it being. Till the imbalance is actually created. All we have now are a couple of tests done in another country. The specifics of which we do not have.
In my opinion everyone seems to be getting some domination out of Episode 6. With the exception possibly of DE. I havent seen anything yet for them of this caliber. However there are a few claws coming with attributes such as +10damage. But counter to that point is that for so long DE's were dominating. Outside of the god weapons, it could be said that all NCK is doing is catching up the other classes. Are 5 god classes still considered gods? Or is it just 5 classes at that point.
Yes, many people in Korea are turning to knight. Many people are feeling that knights are getting a lot of love from NC. Up until Episode 5, knights were in my opinion the most stagnant class of all. For 13+ episodes there was very little in the way of positive change for them. (With the exception of LOA rule set changes, unique to our servers alone, and have no bearing on what NCK does.) They sat and watched as all the other classes around them got new and cool items and spells. They sat and watched as a new god class was introduced into the game, that did everything they did but better. I do not see why it is wrong for them to, for once, be the class that changes are revolving around. For them to be the class that has the twinkle of NCK's eyes, temporarily. Because before (and while) knights watched all of this happen around them, they were the god class themselves. Very much in the same shoes then, that DE's are in now.
It will be short lived. The uproar you voice here may very well be echoing all through Korea; the complaints you make amplified by the complaints of 1000 De's in Korea. If there is an imbalance outside of NCK's designed intentions, surely it will come to a reasonable resolution before it reaches our shores.
This is just my opinion.
edit--
By the way... Just so its clear.... This is something I have said numerous times in many threads for a long while...
~I agree that knight should not be able to out DPS DE's.~
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I was referring to Korean/TW
I was referring to Korean/TW knight players, I very much doubt complaints made here in the USA are sent to Korean Devs, that's why NCA has distinct control of their server content unlike TW/Kor etc.
I could understand if they re added dragon slayer back, at least that's not overbearingly god-like just very good. But why add a weapon that would allow a knight to output the Damage Per Minute (DPM) of a dark elf+knight all at once per swing, so DPM is effectively like having 2 knights hitting something with top end gear.
I'm not limiting my complaint to the knight version of this weapon, this also extends to the insane +2int +2wis +7SP +50mp (level 1) version for mages. Utterly stupid. If these weapons were varied to include DE, Prince, Elf versions I would still be against them being introduced because they're simply to stupid to be in game. Far to powerful and will probably only be available to gold buyers, botters or bot owners.
I'm sure the tune of players will change because Fracas in his extremely limited wisdom will do something stupid like include alot of components if not the outright weapons themselves in another drop event.
As for the stagnant nature of Knight gear, I don't agree with you on this point, NCA added weapons only for knights, very good and often more preferred for use weapons. Also for example sword of the pretender king 2hs, doesn't seem that great but at +9 it's actually a very good damage dealer. DE got garbage items that aren't even usable since we got introduced, since everything was either on the difficulty of obtaining DKS pre event or weaker then Bedo/Claw.
As for the DE weapons, they are apparently only like Kedo/Kclaws with either dex/wis added to them, they in fact overall do less due to the fact they act like ancient weapons with the inherent damage variance like a-sword does, this is compounded by the fact they are NOT enchantable.
The thing I dislike the most about this god sword and staff is the stupidity of it's ability to change balance in a very dramatic effect, you mentioned destroy, yes strong, but a mage wouldn't sit there and spam destroy against a boss since he'd waste mp very quickly, if he did he'd eventually have no MP, these weapons aren't limited situation but in fact end all weapons, u need nothing else after obtaining them to ruin bosses and players alike aside from maybe a little mr since your damage output would still be enough to compensate even if u decided to play naked.
It's understandable Knight gets some love, that should have been comparable weapons to TSU + the skills. There no reason for the god weapons to exist, since for that trail of logic why does MAGE get a god weapon, with the fact they always get new stuff every patch, super summons gear and spell access.
The only draw card of lineage will be gone for our servers soon, that is, one can quit and come back and still be fine and comparable to others. Casual players can play at their pace with no hurry to level since at least their gear is fine, with the god weapons theres no comparability since only hard core, gold buyers or botters will have it. It's just ridiculous to let anyone have access to such an unbalancing bunch of weapons.
Quote:As for the stagnant
If you reread you will notice I said... Stagnant for 13+ episodes up till Episode 5. =) Yes, some good stuff was in epi5, for everyone. And yes, there were LOA items added, but I also mentioned to exclude those because they have no bearing on what NCK does....
I disagree.
When you leave Lineage, you always come back to find that those that were ahead of you, are now even further ahead of you. And you find that if you put the same time in as they did you can catch up to them (but they will constantly be moving forward also). I see nothing different about that than this situation... Only a very few very dedicated players are going to have these god weapons (this is the first one in the world!)... And adena buying wont get them for you. You cant bot most of the areas you have to hunt... Playing hard core will get you them... But playing hard core will get you anything. And if you play hard code and invest that much time and patience, then you deserve the god weapon. I dont think you understand what it takes to get this weapon.
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You are putting entirely way
You are putting entirely way too much mental energy into this. The new "god" weapons you describe will be extremely rare to the point that one or two of each will exist on the server and it will likely be a year or two after EP6/Part II/U are released that we actually see one. Please calm down and get your head on straight before you start going on and on about balance because you are stressing yourself out over A GAME (I would hate to see how you react to real life issues is this is any indicator).
You have a couple options:
1. Take the new stuff in stride and deal with/adapt to the changes being made
2. Quit
I am all for class balance, but these new weapons will be so rare I seriously doubt they will hurt class balance in the near future. I am also looking forward to the new content being added with the up-coming episodes, it should make the game more interesting and fun :).
Quote:It seems that you are
[Cough][Cough]DK sword[Cough][Cough]
..:: My Blog ::..
i can't say certain for
i can't say certain for Baranka Claws but i'm certain Demon series do not crit 20-30% more. I donno where that rumor started but its just not true.
Soomyung
Dark Elf
Ken Rauhel
http://soomy.blogspot.com
Well...I know DEs don't want
Well...I know DEs don't want to hear this, but the K-Weapons are certainly more "end-game" than many other weapons for other classes. Now...I won't do a comparison of them to DK/KV swords...but considering my melee/fire elf situation my particular position should be relatively obvious...especially compared to that of any DE.
Wait...What??
I have to agree with
I have to agree with Feandel, what end-game melee weapons are available for elves?
Elf melee damage comes in
Elf melee damage comes in the form of spells and support spells... Not all out weapon strength...
In my opinion, elves should not have access to high damage melee weapons. They arent knights, they arent DE's. Their strength comes not from the weapon they use, but from their spells and self buffs they combine with that weapon. If they had high damage weapons, say in relation to Tsurugi, then they would just become knights that can heal themselves and hunt forever. Creating another rift in class role/balance.
They already have nice swords... Including Asword, Scorn, Thors, Bkat, Sword of Flames, Shamshir/Rap, SLS, and Long Sword of Pretender King.
So as far as end game, none. But combining the end game spell, Soul of Flame, with any of the above weapons allows for huge damage output...
Side note:
Anyone know if Soul of Flame maximizes the damage roll of the undead bonus?
For instance... +9Rapier 11/6
Itll always roll 9 damage + 1 to 11 + 1 to 20 against undead. Giving it a damage of 11 to 40 against undead.
With Soul of Flame it will always roll 9 + 11 (no more 1-10, as it maximizes damage) + 1 to 20 undead Giving it 21 to 40 against undead...
or is it 9 + 11 + 20 (maximized undead roll also) meaning always rolling highest possible rolls with baseline 40 damage against undead.
Anyone know if Soul of Flame effects undead bonus roll?
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I didn't mean (again) to
I didn't mean (again) to imply that elves should have a "drool" inspiring melee weapon to work towards...but something more impressive than a bkat please.
And Sk8...Soul of Fame isn't a practical hunting spell. It's a temp buff against a single strong opponent and little else. Elemental Fire is already a massive sgem drain that cannot be sustained for an extended period of time without a severe sacrifice in longevity or durability (ie potions of one kind or another). Nevermind that all this "added damage" from spells is all elemental (ie fire). That's not really a "good" thing outside of a very small selection of locations...believe me. Having to cast Falldown CONSTANTLY on every target I come across is a massive drain, but failing to do so means that all those spells will do next to nothing against a very very large number of mops. All that coupled with the fire form of Exotic Vitalize (another sgem sucker) and you can see where a strong aversion to having a SPELL being the defining characteristic of elves melee ability might originate.
Don't get me wrong, elves have a good amount of melee viability...but that viability is very limited in where it can be applied (you and I both know that). There are MANY places where melee is simply not possible for an elf.
Wait...What??
That is why I may go water
That is why I may go water instead of fire at level 50+.
In my opinion, Soul of Flame
In my opinion, Soul of Flame is the reason that you will never see an uber elf melee weapon of the type you desire... Because the bkat or asword you use now may fail to compare to a knight counterpart... But with soul of flame it out performs knights...
I do understand the impracticalities of the spell... But the fact that it is even there is what is stopping a better sword from coming...
Being a melee elf you have to accept that your melee damage comes from your spells and live with it... Or make a knight and get all the melee damage you desire... =P But are you willing to sacrifice your self heals/buffs, your VT, your fire buffs, your unlimited mp.... for stronger melee?
But here is your something to work towards that you desire o.o
Elf God Weapon
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But it cannot be enchanted
But it cannot be enchanted (easily) :P.
Elves have access to
Elves have access to everything that knights do except the LoA weapons and tsu. I exclude KV and DKs since they werent ever meant to be common. There is a reason they cost 6-10billion on Kor/tw servers.
It might not seem like much but combine it with wafers and the fact elves can self heal and but and elves are actually very well off. I won't go into armor because of drop events ruining the balance of tanking through Taraks, silver wings etc.
wow didn't mean to start up
wow didn't mean to start up all this argument de vs knight =.=;; i have to agree with sk8 that CB is very situational.. its definetly not the defining knight skill (i think stunshock is hehe which goes very well with this sword) no dumb melee will hit CB activated Knight.. in many cases it works as an agro dump and i believe that in itself isn't so bad... as in the hit of any battle, even few second agro dump can be win/loss..
to clear things up. that weapon is made on live server. the person who made it is very well known fighter who brought all of the castle under his control. he isn't the actual royal but he is believed to be the master mind and the true controller behind alliances and strategies of his server. of course being in that position helps him to gather all the items with ease. it will probably be a different case for our servers. and i'm not sure how it will come to be but i have no doubt we will see this sword made someday :) its not entirely impossible. and i say that because yahee set.. imo is nearly impossible :P
lastly just to add how powerful that sword really is.. he can easily beat the highest level knight/de in korea... that includes characters who hp gambled and have maximum hp allowed. very powerful indeed.
Soomyung
Dark Elf
Ken Rauhel
http://soomy.blogspot.com
thx for the info v.v ..:: My
thx for the info v.v
..:: My Blog ::..
There is one of these god
There is one of these god weapons for everyone... Its not just a knight thing... there is a DE claw that owns... There is the mage staff you mention that owns (stats are 50mp +2wis +3sp +12mp regen)... Everyone has their chance at one. (I havent heard of a bow version, but maybe Soom can correct me)
With how much work goes into making one of these things.... Its perfectly acceptable for the one person who manages to do all the godly things required to make these weapons, to have a godly weapon for their efforts.
These things are harder to make than Sword of Silence. Involve way more work. Way more than just collecting items... There is huge levels of luck, skill, and work involved. Its not as simple as just buying up the ingredients and crafting the sword... '
Oh and they are all safe to +0. (Like Bapho Staff)
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well not exactly.. the DE
well not exactly..
the DE claw that requires same component is specced as follows
25/20 Dex +2 +Dam +10
Remember that these weapons can blow at +1. And from difficulty of obtaining the item noone dares to blow them.
Kclaw has
20/16 hit +2 and Dam +5
Since we are talking about "end game" we of course should add +9 to Dam. +9 weapons also have +4 additional hit from every 2 enchants. So it comes out to this.
+9 Kclaw 20/16 hit +6 Dam 14
vs
25/20 Dex +2 Dam 10
You see.. its clear that this "counterpart" isn't godlike weapon. In fact i don't think its any better than kclaw.
The mage weapon also isn't all that great as it is two handed.
On the otherhand Knight weapon is truely god like hehe
25/30 STR +2 Hit +5 Dam +20
Just to compare this to +10 Tsu
+10 Tsu 16/10 +7hit +10 Dam
You can see the difference.. Just from damage multiplier we are seeing a +10 different on top of basic attack power which has 9 difference for small mob and 20 difference for large mob. There is of course a difference in two handed speed and one handed speed. So my comparison might be flawed a bit :P
Lastly there is no new bow other than moon bow.
Soomyung
Dark Elf
Ken Rauhel
http://soomy.blogspot.com
soomyung wrote:Lastly there
And I should assume that there is also no melee weapon for elves? I might add, what I know of the "new bow" is simply that it's an alternative to sayha which isn't all that great to begin with (and definitely not worth anywhere near the going rate of the materials).
Wait...What??
Wind Blade Short Sword 23/16
Wind Blade Short Sword
23/16 +6 dmg +2 dex not enchantable though
Cursed True Hell King (cannot be traded)
19/22 Hit +4 DK morph -HP regen enchantable to +6
Are these still in queue for EP6 Soomy or Sk8?
Yes the wind blade short
Yes the wind blade short sword is usable for all classes. And is crafted with same reagents that are very difficult to obtain. It is considered as a dagger.. and gets a nice speed boost in swings later in ep6. i think its a very good end game weapon yet hardly comparable to the knight sword.
As for the other sword, it is not part of ep6 launch in korea. i assume that info was gathered from either chinese or japanese servers. they work on slightly different rules/items as we have loa rules.
Soomyung
Dark Elf
Ken Rauhel
http://soomy.blogspot.com
Are these the weapons that
Are these the weapons that are a royal pain to craft?
Also, what are the other weapons that are set to be released with EP6?
check out
check out http://www.linwiki.net/index.php/Episode_6_Preview#Weapons
thier is also this knight wep listed there~~
[Unknown Person's] Sword [knight only]
40/50
safe enchant:None
Cannot be damaged.
+7 hit
+30 dmg
+2 str
+1 con
+2 cha
and this mage staff~~
[Unknown] Staff
15/15
+100 MP
+10 [SP?]
+2 int
+2 wis
..:: My Blog ::..
those two weapons drop from
those two weapons drop from a boss that is intended to be an immortal being. it has never been killed :P
Soomyung
Dark Elf
Ken Rauhel
http://soomy.blogspot.com
Is this immortal being the
Is this immortal being the one that appears on the video on Lineage Wiki?
soomyung wrote:those two
Soomyung
Dark Elf
Ken Rauhel
http://soomy.blogspot.com
Then how do they know what it drops O_o?
Wait...What??
there was an event server
there was an event server created in korea for short period of time. i'm pretty sure it was a paid service. i don't remember exactly what it detailed on but i think the term they had it was "preview server" and made much of ep6 items readily available.
Soomyung
Dark Elf
Ken Rauhel
http://soomy.blogspot.com
Personally I like the mage
Personally I like the mage staff. At end game status most mages are 25 base int anyways, and can afford to sacrifice the extra 1 int / 50mp for the gain in regen/sp/mr/etc. Plus it is a weapon that you do not have to bother switching out over and over... You can