Hello,
I am an old player who recently came back to find what you all have grown accustomed to, a server plagued by bots. This realization has led me to question my reactivation. After reading several forum posts and discussions, it is clear that this situation is not going to change and the number of real legit players is dwindling.
With this in mind, I explored the possibility of private servers and found one. To my shock I actually ran into some old LOA players. This is not a post to recruit to private servers, but more to spur discussion about what is keeping players from simply moving to the private servers?
The particular one I have played on has no lag issues from what I could tell, a few minor instances of glitches, and an active dev team.
The problem however is simply people. It consistently holds about 20 people online, but no real bots.
What prevents you from playing on a private server?
What you it take for you to play on one?
What kind of private server would you want to have?
Please do not let this become a conversation about the legality, or morality of private servers.
- Thank you
Quite simple: Private
Quite simple: Private servers are illegal and may vanish or change every day, it's like playing on test server. Additionally I think private servers are no challenge. What I heard about private servers is that they are much easier than on test. No challenge, no fun.
Sorry to resurrect this
Sorry to resurrect this post, but i couldn't help myself. I keep seeing people talking about how private servers are illegal and they are stealing from NC etc., etc. This is completely untrue, Lin1 sourcecode is public, the game is a free download, and as long as whomever runs the PS doesn't charge anyone, it is NOT illegal. If you have ever heard of Emulation this is the exact same thing. Emulators are LEGAL. As someone had mentioned before, the loss of player base in Lineage 1 is not due to these Private servers, it's because NCAmerica sucks, and can't even put out a single significant update in over 18months, can't or won't police their servers for cheaters/bots, and has poor customer service. If these issues had been resolved then people would never have a reason to leave NC servers.
Just like you can find emulators for other old games, Lineage 1 Private servers are completely legal. There may be a fine moral line but the legal line is very distinct.
SunnyD wrote: Lin1
Lin1 sourcecode is public
This is interesting. Why in the Earth NCi would have made Lineage 1 source code public if they are still running the game commercially and very successfully too I would say? Releasing the code further exposes the game for hacks, bots etc. because people programming those things would have total access to the server code instead of trying to guess what they are up against (or by stolen code).
Thus it's very difficult for me to believe such a claim. Could you provide some proof for that, example a link to official NCi source that gives out such a code? Otherwise I assume the code is just breached out a.k.a stolen and based on that the private servers have been written. In that very likely case the private servers would be very much illegal.
If NCi has indeed released the code of Lineage 1 then it's of course totally differend deal and I would not think private servers illegal in that case (assuming the 'contract' to access that code would not decline you to build and maintain private servers based on the code). But like I said, some proof for this would be nice.
Thank you.
--------------------------------------------
Have fun, but let others have too :)
are you sure your not
are you sure your not confusing lineage 1 client download lineage 1 server software w/server and client sourcecode? 90% of games even after they stop selling, even on their own website stores companys wont release the sourcecode for :| I ran into this problem when I tried to buy X-Wing vs TIE Fighter... lucas arts doesn't even sell the game on their site anymore, but they wont release its sourcecode or declare it abandon ware so you can legally share ISO disk img or burn copys of it for people (theres no piracy protection on it at all), so it is not possible to obtain legally atm, unless its from a 2nd hand store, which, I've looked at, and still can't find the stupid game.... sux I miss XvT, espeachally the large comunity that created so many 3rd party mods/expantions, that along with lineage proably my 2 favorite PC games of all time.
Unfortunatly I can't even find anyone to obtain XvT from illegally :| which I would have no quals about doing, as I bought 2 copys of it w/BoP expantion almost 10 years ago, just don't have any idea what happened to my disks :|
www.pyroamos.com - check it out ^^
part of the issue is that
part of the issue is that people are attached to their chars and their items, level and friends who are also attached to it all. if a private server could or would "transfer"copy" items level stats ect over then you would get more to cross over with ease. i for one would not want to start over. i got good items and i want to keep them. as well my level is good. i have spent 6 years on this char and im not starting over.
Molindar
Mol pretty much sums up not
Mol pretty much sums up not only why I won't go to a private server, but why I don't just change games. A few years back nearly my entire pledge left for WoW. Not me...I don't WANT to start over...I have been here since Mac beta and have far too many hours invested in my current characters and gear to move anywhere willingly. It was hard enough after playing for about 6 months just leaving DEP and moving to KEN, and I didn't have 7 years worth of accumulated wealth and XP then.
Same for me, but by the same
Same for me, but by the same token, we both cannot ignore the slowly but steadily faltering health of Lineage (on all servers). Eventually, we're going to be shoved out the proverbial door. Until that time though, I aim to enjoy whatever amount of time my elf has remaining. Cheers!
Wait...What??
There is no way for this NOT
There is no way for this NOT to become a discussion of legality and morality.
If you play the private servers, you are stealing. If you provide a private server, you are stealing.
Be advised if this thread crosses the thin line into the promotion of private servers, it will be deleted.
The only reason it may
The only reason it may become a conversation based on legality and morality is if some one introduces it out of the context of the speaking points on the initial post.
well, as everybody said,
well, as everybody said, this is a grey concept.
in my case, i got tired of the endless bots on loa. I didn't want to fight for my kills with bots, so I quit.
Then I realized some friends were playing private servers, I logged in, no bots, more fun, so I'm playing there. If is illegal or not I don't care. I quit already anyway.
And seems more ppl think like me, because now is 80+ ppl online all the time, 0 bots.
anyway, LoA is dead. 70% are bots.
a perfect private server
a perfect private server would be doing what nc is doing wrong, but doing it right :P
Not lame x10 exp or such, safety backups, not random wipes etc.
basicly u would prolly need it 99% like retail, but ya less cheap like nc made bosses/dragons etc.
we have seen the same with Lin2 PS, a few live for ages coz they keep server more "clean" than NC does even. But again they aint legal and can go poof anyday so kinda beats the option of safely keeping your "work" on a character intact dont it.
One thing on the legalities
One thing on the legalities of it, and I may be wrong, but my understanding of the exact legalities of private servers is that they are actually legal as long as they are not generating revenue. i.e. a server can not charge for the service or profit off of their product but they can provide the database organization which runs the servers.
This is because the actual operating server is simply an organizational data base. The hard programing of the game all rests on the client side of the program. This programing is free to download and use.
Now in terms of morally wrong or not, that is up for each to decide.
With that said, I am sure some people will reference the Lineage 2 sever in the U.S. which was closed by the FBI. The reason for this was because the server operated a donation button (again legal) however it came to light that the individuals running the server were pocketing the money, which is illegal.
Actually the server the FBI
Actually the server the FBI closed was closed because they were stealing NC bandwidth, not because of the donation button.
Strictly speaking, the only
Strictly speaking, the only thing NC cares about is that you keep paying. To be blunt, I doubt NC would give half a hoot if you continued paying for your account as you access a private server...as far as they are concerned, you're keeping up with the only part of the agreement that really matters to them. However, since they can't really track that sort of thing I doubt any of them would ever say one word or another on the matter.
As for why I don't leave. I'm attached to the folks I know...and like Moli, I've spent MANY years with my elf and would be loathe to just up and throw it away. Unfortunately, NC is all but doing that for me, they're just taking their sweet time about it. Ultimately, Lineage is dying and will take all of our time and energy with it...and we will not have any say in the matter when it does.
-edit- Now if they released population capped server-software that players could rent that run through NC's authentication servers for log-in verification of some sort (ie your players are legitimate NC customers and not freeloaders) they could shut Lineage 1 down right now and let players run with it...and never have to worry about anything ever again. I wonder what sort of interest there is in privately-run, commercially-owned servers? Wave of the future?
Wait...What??
it's not illegal or
it's not illegal or stealing....
Since FieldsofLove says so
Since FieldsofLove says so then it MUST be true. No doubt about it now.
Thanks for clearing that up for us.
Got Blog?
Yes, because I said it, it's
Yes, because I said it, it's true, get over yourself sk8. It's when you make comments like this that show you and everyone how much of a idiot you are.
When my friend logs back on msn. I'll copy and paste what he says about it because he runs a PS for lineage2. He knows all the legal/illegal things about it. What SunnyD said is pretty damn close though.
Of course someone that runs
Of course someone that runs one is going to tell you its legal...
Do you even listen to yourself?
Got Blog?
That's why his server has
That's why his server has been running far longer than anyones out there and hey... the authorities even said it was legal, go figure. So yah, As I've said many times now, as quite a few other people have said as well. If you move around the loop holes, not making any money from it, and using a form of emulator. It's very legal. To the common US idiot, nearly everything is illegal or a form of stealing when it truely isn't.
But yah, I listen to myself. I make sure usually what I type is what I mean. So no foul from what I've said yet. I've also listen to you sometimes... Kinda sad you live near me too ....
Quote:the authorities even
Link please? Source? Define 'Authorities'? Authorities of what? Or are we to just assume that since you said it because you heard it from someone, its true.
If you use the Lineage 1 Client downloaded from www.lineage.com to access a private server, it is illegal and violation of the Service Agreement you agreed to when you downloaded the client.
Obtaining an unlicensed copy of the Client by some other means for use on a Private Server, is illegal. It is unlicensed and infringent on copyrights. In the same way that all my Adobe/Macromedia applications I copied over from my colleges computers are illegal to use.
The only way a private server is legal is: NCSoft releases the source code (releases it, not you steal it from them or obtain from someone else that did) and SAYS that you can use it for a Private Server. I can not find any news bulletin or release note on PlayNC or any NCsoft site that says 'Here is the source code for our servers and game, use it for whatever you want including Private Servers.' I cant even find one that says 'here is the source code'. Maybe they did release the source code, but I dont see any evidence anywhere to make that statement true. If you can find any evidence of NCSoft releasing the source code, I would like to see it.
I can find multiple references to Source code being stolen, which is probably where it is originally derived from for each of the Private Servers you see running today. Are you telling me that each time an Episode is released NC sends the code over to the Private Servers so they can have it? No, they have to decode it. They have to reverse engineer it. All of which is illegal.
The more important question is will NCsoft do anything about a private server?
No, they will not waste their recources on legal action and lawsuits to shut down a server that draws 50 users on average and makes no profit.
So what you are saying is half true... If you dont use it to make money, chances are you wont get shut down. But that doesnt make it legal, in any sense of the word. As the code that runs it had to have been illegally obtained in the first place, making the whole operation illegal.
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There is plenty of Evidence of Private Servers being shut down (as recent as April 10th of this year). I cant find any evidence of Private Servers being legal. (Other than Various MMO Forums with People like you saying 'They are Legal if you use a Emulator' but I dont see any 'Authorities' or NCSoft Officials saying anything of the sort.)
Just like how it is illegal to play any SNES or NES game I want on the Emulators I have for them. The games themselves are copyrighted, despite the Emulator I am using to play them being perfectly legal.
And in regards to Lineage II specifically, someone else already did the research for you. Read it here.
http://www.lineagechat.com/showthread.php?t=67
NCSoft Europe Cracks down on Private Servers for Lineage II
Got Blog?
authorities would mean
authorities would mean people that told him to shut it down. But after showing them what he did and the loop holes.. they left it be. Like I said tho, I'll ask him when he logs on what he does differently. But it was made legal, and lineage2 was made off of Unreal engine 2.... It'd be a lot of work recoding most of the stuff, but you could rig it.
If you look hard enough, or work hard enough. There is always a way. Lineage did it with Nethack.
I just wish NC would keep up
I just wish NC would keep up with the jones! Why are these servers so advanced compared to our real servers?
Yet I have never played a private server and only seen screenshots, but thats only way Ive seen any rare items/new content.
Lame how people have to boot legg crap in order to see/get updates.
If your real quiet you can hear your life going by.