Be careful what you ask for ...

Its bullshit.

Really pissing me off, I have a feeling i'll end up banned from the real boards for this topic. 

Since when does silencing a problem make the problem go away?

 Where do they want us to express our concern? 

Support? Not an option.

In game? Not an option.

Fracas? Not an option.

The main forums for discussing Lineage topics? Apparently not an option either...

Got Blog?

wow, that is just sad. i had not noticed those threads were gone, but i did read them yesterday. if that is the road nc is going to take, we will have to find a new sandbox to state our opinions. 

Got Lin Pics?

1) yes, support tickets are ignored and blown off, only way to get NC to listen to anything is to talk about it on boards, here or on lineage.com, even then 9 of 10 times they ignore it. It is also important that new players know that there are some chars they can't get in confrontations with or they will be harrased by NC soft personel.... at higher level when you have some experiance in the game it is a little easier to cope with harrasment, as when they call enemys to you, or chatban you, you can survive and/or circumvent their abuse, but a new player would just be screwed.

 2) yes.

www.pyroamos.com - check it out ^^

Haha.

I went to post a link to this on Pyro's thread, but it got locked before I could get to it.

Here's a thought ... perhaps our new community coordinator can stop spending so much effort shutting down any constructive criticism of the game and instead read Pyros' "Official Response Requested Compilation" and go find us some answers. 

fat chance of that lol....

 on the upside, maintaining simple BBS on their site is beyond their grasp, and this is the official unofficial boards, and yet they can't silence people here.... their own incompetance bites them in the arse 'cause they have to rely on fans to provide basic functions, but they can't silence us here.

www.pyroamos.com - check it out ^^

that was a fast delete btw, i posted it, hit index, saw it, checked who's online to see if new comcor was on, didn't show him online, went back boards and it was gone... either shes online invis or they have a moderator watching to delete any new threads... I was able to put same post in the event thread though... they don't read current threads, only new ones aparently. 

www.pyroamos.com - check it out ^^

It is depressing to watch the game you love fall apart because of poor management. I am very close to quitting lineage... 90% of my friends have already quit. Does anyone believe lineage will last another year? Do they even try to get new players? Do they advertise anywhere? Once all the rich kids are done buying adena the bots will stop and TWE will get real jobs and stop farming bosses for a living.

www.upsaid.com/silverchair

Here is the private message I received explaining why my thread was removed.

*** 

Please take a moment to re-read the forum rules.

Threads that aren't constructive and are created to make
accusations are not permitted. If you have a question about why your
posts or a particular thread were removed, you may feel free to PM me.

You are also not permitted to create threads or make posts regarding board censorship. This is clearly outlined in the rules.

If there are other posts that are in violation of the forum rules,
please use the "Notify Moderator" button that can be found at the
bottom of every post.

Thank you. 

***

 So I went back and read the rules, and I honestly don't get it.

I think the topics that have been disallowed (a discussion of how far is too far for in-game monitors) is very much constructive.  Some of the posts within the threads might have crossed the line of character assassination, but that is no reason to delete the entire thread. 

Rule 2 states that "threads that single out a player for ridicule or to accuse someone of actions in-game will be removed without notice." These are not players. They are paid employees (or contractors). Further, it says the proper channel for this is to use the GM system! What?!?

Rule 2 goes on to forbid personal attacks against forum moderators and game developers. Again no mention of game monitors even if the threads had been personal attacks. Again, they weren't. It was a constructive discussion of what monitors should and should not be allowed to do.

Does anyone know how the monitors are hired? Are they truly outsourced to another company that specifies in monitors and gamemasters for mmorpgs? Or are they just a bunch of kids who apply online and monitor lineage servers from their home computers? Or do they have to actually go into the nc office and login from a work environment...?

www.upsaid.com/silverchair

wow 7 people logged on here... people getting silenced on official boards rly upped the population on lineageone! even lyzira is online... now to see if she posts... hehe

www.pyroamos.com - check it out ^^

On the up-side, if you wanna post about the produce section of your supermarket, lineageboards is the place for you!

 For lineage discussion, looks like its lineageone or nothing :P 

www.pyroamos.com - check it out ^^

Hehe, critizism is good when it's needed, just let's not be too rough for the new face yet. She has apparently arrived from some larger community where the robotic way to handle community is almost mandatory to keep it under control.

In case of Lineage I think the environment differs a bit though, as our numbers are relatively low, most of us have been playing and part of the community for years now thus also raising our average age past the teens. Granted, the maturity does not always show in the discussions, but that's mainly because of the huge frustrations the severe problems in the maintaining and support of the game we have gotten so keen during these years are causing and so even the mature people forgets the good behavior at times. I am not saying that constant bad behavior in the boards are needed to be tolerated, but somekind of understanding would be appreciated.

Example for the matter now under discussion has roots to longer than the posts removed this time and there has already been also contructive discussions about Monitors' and support staff's actions. That might also be a reason why some of the posters has not argumented their claims too well in the new posts because they had already done so in the previous ones and assuming people know their history for the subject.

If however all the critizism towards and/or discussion about NCA and their employeers is wanted to be silenced even it would be constructive and helpful solving the problems I would not be too happy. That kind of practice would only keep the boiling under the cover and raise more and more suspicions amongst the community when the time goes by. Thus I see it better to allow more open discussions about possible problems also in the NCA practices as it gives the community an impression that NCA wants to solve the observed problems rather than wipe them under the carpet.

So I guess I hope we as community and Lyzira as it's representative in the NCA's end will find the common road to discuss about the never ending matters in the near future. Everyone makes mistakes and Lyzira being new amongst us are not yet familiar what style works for this environment. I was hoping Crickette would have tutored her a bit, or then she just tries to push it on her previously learnt way ignoring the tips at this point. Of course it's also possible that NCA has guided her to take the robotic way in preparations to the new boards when more people can be assumed to join the sandbox.

Anyways, from the experience with previous community coordinators I have to say Lyzira's current practice will lead to more or less interesting collisions with the community, hehe. I can only hope she will see in time that the Crickette's (and Nomad's) way will work better for this small and dedicated community. I still hold on the tip I gave for Lyzira in the official boards, but minor addition to clarify it is needed I think:

More communication using casual /down the grass -style to manage the boards and you do well.

--------------------------------------------
Have fun, but let others have too :)

I hope someone during the interview process told Lyzira this is not your typically gaming community. While we may be small in number compared to a lot of other games, I think we are far more passionate about the game.

I think Crickette understood that after the Meet & Greet. Hopefully Lyzira will figure it out, too, and realize that leading with the stick instead of the carrot was a bad idea.

i agree right now Lizira is trying to follow the only guide available and that is the rules as they are written. time will tell how things will shake out and judging by the track record of community leaders they dont last forever. LOL   the issue may resolve itself shortly :)

Anyone have any idea where L is from? Sometimes background plays a role in how we view "the rules"  some people just are control freaks and that doesn't change. Then again some people just mellow out and see reality... or then there is always mutiny, but then again there is always steering the ship. This will be interesting to see how far it goes before we all go on strike ... B

I bet we drive her out before December!

www.lineagedb.com

To be blunt, I think it's absolutely essential that players be able to not only voice their concerns about the on going actions of the in-game staff but voice it publicly. Why? Because it's the only way to get anyone to listen. Most importantly of all, it brings the problem to the attention of everyone else who is PAYING to be here in the first place, and have every right to be aware of a problem.

 We've ALL done the "Support Dance" more times than we care to count, with the end result being MORE pissed off than we were when we started. So I had better never hear another NC staffer tell me to contact support for help...because all you are doing is insulting my intelligence.

Wait...What??

Who knows maybe she will be as dillagent in trying to get NC to enforce the rules of in game play.

lol. okay I think i'm stll asleep cuase thats just a dream.

Never waste a day "learn something new"

A player cordinator has no effeft on the support staff for NC as a whole. They can say something but they are new, in a meaningless game and does not matter.

www.lineagedb.com

ok so i went to check cougar and twice on cougar floor i d/c randomly....

 Then my pledgemate finds KV up, twice on the run up I D/C on 79 once I die and then we finally get to KV and our BK runner gets lagged out,  i have to suddenly tag them all and poly to BK to run them off while our whole party saves themselves.

 A month ago I would consider that a random Lag event, but given all the complaining I' ve done about monitors and the fact that my thread about a specific monitor was deleted ... Now I think that was a fook you, directed at me by the monitor in charge a montior # that i will remember that i'm restricted from mentioning based on the fricken rules, one that i pointed out what happened who as usually told me to WRITE IN TO SUPPORT? FRICKEN REALLY?  I couldn't get a fair shake from support if is was boffing the man in charge.

 KMA

C2

I had a run in with a montior was not bad and well he chated back. Short story he asked me not to slader NC staff on the on global. Well its their game and I can agree with him on it ^^ does not mean I like it but well the rules have been slacked far to long.

As the monitor asked me many times have I had any interaction with him. I did not. So as I told him/her we shall see how things go ^^ I look forward to your support.

www.lineagedb.com

dunno bout u guys. but I am enjoying this way too much. It takes 1 person, Lyzira, to set everyone off and to see the true colors of NC when my crew has been dealing with this crap for years now.

 and if fracas, Lyzira, all them keep doing what they doing. There won't be a lineage later... If we rehire a new team or get some people that can produce. This game will go on another 5+ years easy.

Okay all I have to say is....

dude really this sucks!

I can really care less about the boards...I have been here for almost 2 years now but am not allowed on the boards as new registration was shut down on there long before I showed up.

A subtle F YOU from NC that any new players joining the lin world get.

Now this new person is deleting stuff.

Gee...and we wonder why we are all so un happy.

bots, bad monitors, a board that dosnt grow with the lin community. and now deleting posts calling all this into light.

NC YOU SUCK.

I ranted ...and I will feel better until I log on and have to fight a bot for a mop.

"The only friends that matter are the ones you can call at 4am." www.crystaljeanelf.blogspot.com

[img=http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/6349/v8pf.png]

lol.. nc randomly d/c ppl out of game numerous times.. forbading the talk of monitor involvment in and out of game.. allowing bots to roam free without action taken against them.. abandoning all their players who pay for the game.. YES i cant believe i didnt see it before.. nc is corrupt and working with the mafia!! they feel do as little work as possible but do just enough to keep people paying... its genius rly..

make sure you all not even think about quitting because if you do.. the mafia will come after you demanding their money.

LOL! Gan!  Lineage Mafia!   Careful, you may end up with a contract on your ass.  ;-)  15,000 adena and a donut can get you taken out.

 Hey, I could almost get behind paying protection money to MonitorXX if he/she would just insure me against blowing items.  Everyone knows how I feel about bots (once a bot, always a bot), but I think I get more frustrated trying to make items!  (I guess I have given up and just accepted the bots in my hunting area...I don't even bother reporting them anymore since it obviously doesn't help, at least not in Abyss Lake)  BUT...if a monitor out there could sell my protection from blowing items, well, it might just be "an offer I couldn't refuse."    Of course, if I was a "made" guy, I could do bots with impunity.  hehe   Now that;s a nice thought, isn't it?

Yesterday July20th at approximately 9:57pm I was hunting in the baby room of Temple Of Shadows when the son of a friend of mine (who is only 12 or 13 years old) told me that one of the monitors was bugging him and wouldn't stop. I proceeded to confront the monitor about the situation and had absolutely the most surreal converstation I have ever had with a monitor which included the monitor suggesting that perhaps I was harrassing him.
The Entire Conversation may be viewed at http://dcarnival.livejournal.com/

So I posted about it on Lineage.com and this is what happened.

My response to lyzira: 
That is fine, I will just post about it on Lineage One then since you find it improper to discuss issues on this board.  I thought that is what the boards are for, but apparently all you want to hear is cheering and good things about your product.  Well it's not all good things as I have stated before and will state again.

I did not mention the monitor's name or the child's name, I just put up for discussion an issue which has plagued many people in this game which you seem unwilling to let us discuss at all.

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently if you wanna discuss anything at all which might be considered damaging to NC or it's products you need to come here to LineageOne.  Although who knows they might demand that Roo takes this post down as well.

 Fight the Power
Cainna

Private servers looking better and better :| espeachally some of the newer ones coming out... very nice... sooooo tempting.

www.pyroamos.com - check it out ^^

I dont see that the Monitor has done anything wrong, simply from reading your transcript. However, if we could see the transcript between the monitor and the player under harrasment, that may change. 

 All I can see from this is the monitor doing his job. 

 It appears that the monitor was checking the player to see if it was a bot. (Its the monitors job, duh) Being a Kid, the player did not understand what was going on. However, it is not the Monitors job to know that you are a friend, family member, mother, father, son, daughter, grandma, aunt, uncle, long lost cousin, etc etc, of the player. The monitor did exactly what he should have done, disregard you. You are just another player, asking personal information about another player. The monitor does not know any connection between you and the other player, and can not give out any information about what he is doing with the other player to you, because he would lose his job. Monitors can not talk about the investigation of other players to other players. 

 The only thing you could have done was submit a support ticket, but guess what, that would be ignored too. The only person that could submit a support ticket is the player being harrassed. If the player feels they are harrassed, being a minor that had to have an adult create the account for them, will need to have that very adult file the support ticket and handle the problem for him. 

From what I can see, based on just what I can read not based on what may be contained in the transcript between the player and the monitor... 

The monitor did nothing wrong. He was simply doing his broken english, outsourced, job.  

 -----

This clearly illustrates yet another catch-22 in Lineage...

 For years we have had to BEG Monitors and NC to do their  job and check bots and remove them.... They were reluctant to do so, which created this rift between player and monitor. So many players have began to see Monitors as useless, and detrimental to the game... instead of beneficial to the game. This is understandable, because it is built on all the passed years of poor monitors and poor NC banning practices...

 However, in recent days or weeks, Monitors have begun to do their job. They are checking players, they are looking for bots, and bots are disappearing from the game!  Wow! Monitors are doing what they need to do!

This makes me a very happy Lineage player.

 Although evident from this transcript, it obviously does not make all Lineage players happy to see this happening. 

I still see many people Monitor bashing on global or the boards near every day. Despite the fact that positive results are now being seen from what Monitors are doing in game. 

 Catch-22 I said? Correct... We wanted them to do their jobs, we begged for them to, we pleaded... 

They are now doing their jobs! And we bash them for it? I disagree with the players now, not the monitors. Sure, it took 6 years to get the monitors to do something, but now that they ARE, I do not think it right to keep bashing them... Its time for the players to step back, let them do their job, and watch for the results... If a couple months from now there are no results, then we can continue to bash them... But I have seen MANY results recently, so I will stay positive, step back, shut up, and let the monitors keep on doing what appears to be working... 

 Even I was whispered by a monitor over the weekend... the monitor was simply checking if I was a real player... When you correctly answer the question, they go away and leave you alone... I couldnt expect more from the monitor, he did his job... and I thanked him for checking up on me to make sure I was not a bot, and told him to keep up the good work. Why? Because he was doing exactly what he is supposed to do. Exactly what we have asked them to do.

Exactly what people are now complaining about them doing... And I can not figure out why...

Real players are bitching that real players are getting checked up on... In my opinion, thats exactly what should be happening. Its not a real player or a bot in the monitors eyes, until they have checked it.

Got Blog?

Yeh, chances are this kid was botting or screwing with the monitor. Smacks of the simpsons to me hehe:

Won't somebody please think of the children?!

Childern? Yes I understand childern do this play this game. They had to get their parents consent to do so. NC should not have to be on the look out for that child that might be play. They have their set of rules to do. As Mr C said as a 13 year old could have not understood many of the monitors questions. Its easy to get upset and a bit aggervated with a child in Real life. Now add that child behind a computer on his father accounts and now add in a monitor has no clue of this person. It's simple Keep to their script and go from it with the anwser. I could easly see the kid say things that just did not add up or even give a correct anwser. So in the end it could have been a bad player or maybe he just took what the monitor said as he is a bad player even if the moinotr did not say that.

www.lineagedb.com

Support and myself have had the opportunity to investigate the situation and it boils down to a simple misunderstanding.  As some of you mentioned, the monitor was performing a standard bot check by asking the player some basic questions.  

 It is unfortunate that the player felt badly about the situation but I hope that he'll be able to understand that we're working to improve the game and that he simply experienced part of this process.

-Lineage Community Team-

Outsourcing to monitors who don't speak enough colloquial english to make themselves clear to a young kid is pretty unacceptable.  Having a monitor suggest to you in broken english that perhaps you are harrassing him is a surreal experience.  Having a thread I created to discuss the situation (which broke none of the rules) deleted simply because those in charge would prefer not to have to deal with an issue that has plagued the user base for quite some time is what prompted me to post this here and document each instance of interaction. 

 My post itself on lineage.com broke none of the rules but Lyzira found it necessary to delete it and then to try to subvert the attempts I made to actually get anyone to look at my blog which explained my situation and argument which I was unable to make on the lineage.com boards but am free to state on my blog. 

 Just to let you know Lyzira, trying to force me to shut up will only make me struggle harder to be heard, because then i just feel you are trying to cover something up.

Now that she's decided that NC is not at fault, notice that Lyzira's perfectly happy to join the discussion.  I bet now she would even allow  me to post a thread on lineage.com about it, which i get, but trying to hide the ineptitude of your monitors from the very people who deal with them every day is like trying to hide the idiocy of our current president... guess what? the secret is already out. 

 Why not try to have an open discussion with your customers about the ways in which your monitors have failed so that you can fix the system with actual data from clients rather then just randomly guessing how you can make it better.  You seem to be able to do that regarding known bugs and issues in the game, why would this be any different?  It is a known issue in the game, just apparently one we are not allowed to discuss.

 Cainna

Sorry but you are not uptodate on the current rules. If is slandering NC in anyway it will be gone. Even after they have checked on it and proven its was a misunderstanning on a 13 years old part...

www.lineagedb.com

When did I say anything about your sig was wrong? I was talking about the topic on lineage.com you can say what you want on nc on your blog and that is fine. I said slander for you look at your view on it and not the whole story.  I myself do not see anything wrong with the monitor he was talking to a /accused bot as he thought. Then you jump on him trying to get information and other things when he should not tell you anything. So to me it does come off as you where harssening the monitor.  All I am trying to say is it can be viewed both ways. You thought you were right and doing no harm and so did the monitor. THen a 3rd party out of nowhere jumps on him like why are you messing with a 13 year old! Don’t you know he is 13! (Did not say that just as easily can be taken that way.) 

www.lineagedb.com