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Claws vs edoryus

ZWarlordZ and Elf15's picture

Hey all i was wondering if anyone could help me out here. Im trying to decide on which new de weapon to make when epi 6 comes out but im in a bind. See i added up a bunch of numbers and it seems to be that Edoryu wins everytime, but that is the problem cause i did the same to a +7 kclaw and kedo and even though the edoryu sometimes does kill in a few less hits , its very rare and most the time the claw adverage hits do more damage. But then i compare Sedo to Sclaw and even a +7 sedo is better damage than a +9sclaw. Maybe Im adding the numbers wrong...Maybe its one of those things you just can't find the answer by doing math equations with? All some other things i even tried but im not sure of it, that when a claw crits it isn't the whole random based damage its 3/4 of it , and its just to keep its random damage on the high end, and also that claw crit rate is 1/2 and edoryus crit rates are 1/4. If anyone has a guess or really knows how it works please tell me so i can make my decision.


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I was under the impression

PyroAmos's picture

I was under the impression they changed the crits so claw crit made it roll max, and edo crit made hit hit twice. If this is true, assuming claw crit only maxes weapon roll, not silver bonus roll, and edos 2hit crit give 2 silver bonuses, it would make good sense that sedo kills significantly faster than sclaw on undead mobs, as most the dmg on undead mobs is from the silver bonus.

 

but then, what do I know, I'm just a knight.

 

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Not counting Undead Claw is

Anju's picture

Not counting Undead Claw is best HUNTTING weapon.Edo is good for Undead/ Bosses/ PvPI use a +9 K-claw and well even vs a +8 Kedo I still will beat anyone hands down in mops killed per hour. With a notable difference


Um I challenged that with

ZWarlordZ and Elf15's picture

Um I challenged that with soomie and i could kill 71f+ mobs in less or equal hits with a+7 kclaw vs his +9kedo, kedo is not for hunting but i have seen places where edo was better,but over all claw has been best. This was with constant db on both sides.

But i did add up all the numbers and even if you do the adverage mark on a edos damage with crits and all vs claw the claw still doesn't put out as much damage by alot pretty much the edo by its first base crit hit has equaled or done more than the claw has.


We'll see if this helps at

Chryses's picture

We'll see if this helps at all ...

Tikie and I did some pretty extensive testing on this back when he was trying to decide whether to invest his adena in a high-end claw or edo.

Our testing confirmed that when a claw crit it did max damage. It was always the same number when it crited and as far as we could tell (assuming we weren't missing something) it was the max possible damage taking into account all factors (weapon base, weapon damage plus, level bonus, strength bonus, etc.)

While testing cannot determine with absolute certainty what the edo was doing because by its very nature the crits were all different, it seemed to confirm that when the edo crits it simply roles the damage twice (a double hit with both blades).

If you operate under the assumption that the average damage is going to be right in the middle of the minimum and maximum dmage for the weapon, both should come pretty close. The difference is two low roles on the edo could be well below the one max role on the claw and two high roles on the edo could be well above the max role on the claw.

However, much of the damage is constant. The role only applies to the 15/15 (or whatever damage). The plus to damage, the strength bonus, etc. are always there and always at a set number (mitigated only by AC, which effects the set damage with either weapon).

Ultimately, my thinking is for day-to-day hunting you are better off with the claw because you are getting more consistent damage out of it when it crits and because they typically have higher base damage and higher damage bonus than does an edo.

The edo, I think, is better in situations where either plus to hit (they usually have a better hit bonus) or the possibility of a monster crit are more vauable. That, to me, means bossing and player vs. player.

I don't know if that is the type of information you are looking for or not, but there it is. 


Yes, under normal

Yes, under normal circumstances (ie Dark Elf using generally inexpensive and sustainable buffs) Claws will outperform Edos. The reason is directly tied to what each one adds in terms of damage. I would wager, that by the time you are70+ (ie max strength or near to it) the tables turn between edos and claws as the natural damage bonuses from strength and level have become MUCH more substantial, adding all the more damage to each edo crit as opposed to the damage added by a claw crit which is still the same.

There's also the frequency factor in here. It seems to me that claw crits are more frequent than edo crits, but that might just be my impression.

If you've got a pocket heal-mage (or fire elf for that matter) to accompany your DE (for full buffs), I'm also betting it's a whole different story between Claws and Edos. It's too bad I hate DEs, Feandel would make a godly awesome heal-elf for 2-boxing a DE

Wait...What??


A two box heal elf would be

A two box heal elf would be kind of interesting to see.... It would have to be Fire, or else it wouldnt be worth it to have. Because a mage can do better than a NB elf, due to ITH. So the whole point of an elf heal slave would be the sole purpose of fire buff. But as a full time healer also... it would be interesting. You can not sustain your heals off passive regen alone, so all the  gheal and b2s you would have to do on yourself would make you walk even slower than an elf already walks. I couldnt imagine trying to two box with an elf instead of a mage as the healer... All the b2s's, all the healing yourself to get your own hp back... the lack of ith... the slower walking speeds coupled with constant stopping to cast b2s... 

 Would be a sight to see. 

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You don't have to target NB

PyroAmos's picture

You don't have to target NB just 2 buttons and follow... when I've seen
people do it, they have elf in bapho so it can cast its spells and keep
up with no problem.

 

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But Mage > NB elf, so why

But Mage > NB elf, so why use NB elf at all? The point was for 50 Fire buff heal slave.  

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because you ahve to target

PyroAmos's picture

because you ahve to target with mage, with elf there no targeting. 

 

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I see your point, but when I

Chryses's picture

I see your point, but when I two-box, targeting isn't really an issue and I am rarely partied becuase I want the tank getting the experience.

If I want to split the experience, I just take someone else in the pledge with me and don't bother with running two machines.


V.V  Beer Me !! Visit

Tikie's picture

V.V 

Beer Me !!

Visit Tikies Home on the Web Here!

Iris .. She heard
 
Tikie was on His Way up!


When you did those test did

ZWarlordZ and Elf15's picture

When you did those test did you do it w/o burning excel  on cause that 1.5x damage is random and not always constant.

Yes im sure if i did max my str, that edo would be way more powerful cause every + to damage on claw is base +1 chance to 2-3 more damage if you add the bonus that spells give and edo +1 base would have te chance to 2=4=6 with spells , if we ever get to have +12 weapons or i ever max my str i would go edo .

But it seems with all the undead next epi , Im gonna be using edo more often :P.   So when an edo crits is it 2x what the attack is or is it 2 different rolls altogether?

And thank you all who put in a comment :)


that one, is anyones

PyroAmos's picture

that one, is anyones guess... I guess you could try using one on someone and if a crit rolls an odd number, it would likly mean it is 2 seperate rolls, but then, the AC dmn reduction could of made it an odd number... it would be near-imposible to figure this out with absolute certainty.

 

www.pyroamos.com - check it out ^^